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	<title>Comments on: Beta Patch Changes (Build 8681)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/</link>
	<description>So many numbers, you'll think you're getting audited</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:30:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Phaelia</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5227</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5227</guid>
		<description>@Regindyn: Cute. :-)

@Appleblossom: No, I don&#039;t think so. They&#039;ve considered potion chugging problemsome for a while, and I&#039;m inclined to agree. It&#039;s really no fun to have to bring and consume 40 gold in mana potions a night in addition to Elixirs, reagents, and repair costs. Along the same lines as their change to make Innervate trainable to increase the viability of Feral and Balance specs, when something becomes &lt;em&gt;required&lt;/em&gt; to raid, it&#039;s a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Regindyn: Cute. <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Appleblossom: No, I don&#8217;t think so. They&#8217;ve considered potion chugging problemsome for a while, and I&#8217;m inclined to agree. It&#8217;s really no fun to have to bring and consume 40 gold in mana potions a night in addition to Elixirs, reagents, and repair costs. Along the same lines as their change to make Innervate trainable to increase the viability of Feral and Balance specs, when something becomes <em>required</em> to raid, it&#8217;s a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Appleblossom</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5163</link>
		<dc:creator>Appleblossom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 17:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5163</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible that the potion sickness debuff is just a temporary limit to keep players from zerging thru content too fast in the beta.  Maybe it&#039;ll be gone by release...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible that the potion sickness debuff is just a temporary limit to keep players from zerging thru content too fast in the beta.  Maybe it&#8217;ll be gone by release&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Regindyn</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5161</link>
		<dc:creator>Regindyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 15:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5161</guid>
		<description>I think the debuff needs a better name.  I nominate &quot;Punch Drunk&quot; but that&#039;s just cause I&#039;m weird.  :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the debuff needs a better name.  I nominate &#8220;Punch Drunk&#8221; but that&#8217;s just cause I&#8217;m weird.  <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Phaelia</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5083</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 05:11:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5083</guid>
		<description>@Abagoo: Don&#039;t be a mean bear! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Abagoo: Don&#8217;t be a mean bear! <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Abagoo</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5068</link>
		<dc:creator>Abagoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5068</guid>
		<description>Oh no...poor warrior/pally tanks have to learn to be like druid tanks and not drink health pots all the time..I Like the idea!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh no&#8230;poor warrior/pally tanks have to learn to be like druid tanks and not drink health pots all the time..I Like the idea!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Phaelia</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5039</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5039</guid>
		<description>@Yunk: Presumuably, consumables like Super Mana Potions are more of a constant cost than Glyphs will be. You should be able to &quot;settle&quot; on the Glyphs you intend to use and then stick with them rather than having to replace them every time you go to raid. Encounters can be tuned with the expectation of a certain X output (be it healing, threat, mitigation, or DPS), but I imagine they&#039;d rather not tune for something like mana potions which forces players to expend Y amount of gold just to be able to participate without significantly overgearing the encounter.

@Awlbiste: Remember, they cannot design encounters that cannot be completed. They&#039;re simply reducing the amount of mana that will be expected for players to have. I certainly can understand that Alchemists of all people would have objections to this, but they&#039;re not dissimilar to the objections voiced over Guardian/Battle elixirs in the past. =/ I do think the Alchemical Blood buff that gives you a bonus for every potion you consume that you can manufacture should be enough reason to find benefit in the profession, aside from its obvious monetary potential. :-)

@Thalosar: Glyphs will be -- and definitely SHOULD be -- necessary for raiding. They&#039;re akin to not filling out your talents, in my opinion. And remember, Glyphs that aren&#039;t considered &quot;Greater&quot; &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; going to be less &quot;essential&quot; than the best of the &quot;Greater&quot; Glyphs. Obviously, 1.5 hour long MotW is less worthwhile than something that bolsters the duration of your &lt;em&gt;Lifebloom&lt;/em&gt;, but you won&#039;t be choosing between two such Glyphs.

@Cisko: With any amount of committment, Jewelcrafters make more money than any other production tradeskill, hands down. It&#039;s fairly ridiculous. I have a hard time begrudging Alchemists after seeing how much money Mr. Phae has been able to make as a Jewelcrafter.

@Tone: I definitely agree that the regeneration change is likely to have a much larger effect for Energy users. It just makes things more of a headache for theorycrafters on the mana side. ;-) I love the &quot;paycheck to paycheck&quot; analogy, btw.

I&#039;m afraid I must disagree with the idea that Alchemists should somehow be immune to the mechanic of Potion Sickness. Doing so would create similar pressure on raiding guilds to have guilds full of Alchemist similar to the recent pressure to have guilds full of Leatherworkers! Overall, I think it&#039;s a very positive change and should make for more enjoyable raiding.

@Zaira: I&#039;ve not read anywhere that Alchemists will be immune to Potion Sickness. Instead, I believe they&#039;re slated to derive additional benefit from the consumption of any potion (Flask, Elixir included) that they themselves can manufacture. I think all production tradeskills need be kept in line with one another to avoid one trumping the pack; Alchemy unfortunately affords its constituents a much, much greater benefit than some of the others since it grants access to an &lt;em&gt;amazing&lt;/em&gt; trinket and allows the player to earn a good living selling his wares.

@Yggdrasil: I did a double take at that myself. ;-)

@Oni: It has been confirmed that Potion Sickness occurs after the first potion so that you can only use one potion per encounter and must wait a certain amount of time out of combat for the timer to reset itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Yunk: Presumuably, consumables like Super Mana Potions are more of a constant cost than Glyphs will be. You should be able to &#8220;settle&#8221; on the Glyphs you intend to use and then stick with them rather than having to replace them every time you go to raid. Encounters can be tuned with the expectation of a certain X output (be it healing, threat, mitigation, or DPS), but I imagine they&#8217;d rather not tune for something like mana potions which forces players to expend Y amount of gold just to be able to participate without significantly overgearing the encounter.</p>
<p>@Awlbiste: Remember, they cannot design encounters that cannot be completed. They&#8217;re simply reducing the amount of mana that will be expected for players to have. I certainly can understand that Alchemists of all people would have objections to this, but they&#8217;re not dissimilar to the objections voiced over Guardian/Battle elixirs in the past. =/ I do think the Alchemical Blood buff that gives you a bonus for every potion you consume that you can manufacture should be enough reason to find benefit in the profession, aside from its obvious monetary potential. <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Thalosar: Glyphs will be &#8212; and definitely SHOULD be &#8212; necessary for raiding. They&#8217;re akin to not filling out your talents, in my opinion. And remember, Glyphs that aren&#8217;t considered &#8220;Greater&#8221; <em>are</em> going to be less &#8220;essential&#8221; than the best of the &#8220;Greater&#8221; Glyphs. Obviously, 1.5 hour long MotW is less worthwhile than something that bolsters the duration of your <em>Lifebloom</em>, but you won&#8217;t be choosing between two such Glyphs.</p>
<p>@Cisko: With any amount of committment, Jewelcrafters make more money than any other production tradeskill, hands down. It&#8217;s fairly ridiculous. I have a hard time begrudging Alchemists after seeing how much money Mr. Phae has been able to make as a Jewelcrafter.</p>
<p>@Tone: I definitely agree that the regeneration change is likely to have a much larger effect for Energy users. It just makes things more of a headache for theorycrafters on the mana side. <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  I love the &#8220;paycheck to paycheck&#8221; analogy, btw.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid I must disagree with the idea that Alchemists should somehow be immune to the mechanic of Potion Sickness. Doing so would create similar pressure on raiding guilds to have guilds full of Alchemist similar to the recent pressure to have guilds full of Leatherworkers! Overall, I think it&#8217;s a very positive change and should make for more enjoyable raiding.</p>
<p>@Zaira: I&#8217;ve not read anywhere that Alchemists will be immune to Potion Sickness. Instead, I believe they&#8217;re slated to derive additional benefit from the consumption of any potion (Flask, Elixir included) that they themselves can manufacture. I think all production tradeskills need be kept in line with one another to avoid one trumping the pack; Alchemy unfortunately affords its constituents a much, much greater benefit than some of the others since it grants access to an <em>amazing</em> trinket and allows the player to earn a good living selling his wares.</p>
<p>@Yggdrasil: I did a double take at that myself. <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@Oni: It has been confirmed that Potion Sickness occurs after the first potion so that you can only use one potion per encounter and must wait a certain amount of time out of combat for the timer to reset itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Oni</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5036</link>
		<dc:creator>Oni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 02:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5036</guid>
		<description>Has it been confirmed that the potion sickness is applied after a single potion? Maybe you don&#039;t get it until you pot 5 times? Maybe they intend to tweak it so that if you pot right on the CD a few times in a row you get it, but if you have potions off CD for a while and don&#039;t pot that often you won&#039;t really notice it. Kinda like how the sweets of headless horseman works, but not quite as unpredictable.

They are also introducing a ton of other mana regen stuff in WotLK, such as the resto druid Replenish talent. I&#039;m sure they will tweak it to the point where you won&#039;t suddenly feel out of mana like you would if potion sickness were introduced right now, with no other changes. It sounds like they are trying to lower the need for potions to make raiding / instancing cheaper for everyone.

@Thalosar, the 1 extra second on lifebloom will mean more then 7 targets combined with the new Gift of the Earthmother talent, lowering the GCD of lifebloom with another 0.5 seconds. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has it been confirmed that the potion sickness is applied after a single potion? Maybe you don&#8217;t get it until you pot 5 times? Maybe they intend to tweak it so that if you pot right on the CD a few times in a row you get it, but if you have potions off CD for a while and don&#8217;t pot that often you won&#8217;t really notice it. Kinda like how the sweets of headless horseman works, but not quite as unpredictable.</p>
<p>They are also introducing a ton of other mana regen stuff in WotLK, such as the resto druid Replenish talent. I&#8217;m sure they will tweak it to the point where you won&#8217;t suddenly feel out of mana like you would if potion sickness were introduced right now, with no other changes. It sounds like they are trying to lower the need for potions to make raiding / instancing cheaper for everyone.</p>
<p>@Thalosar, the 1 extra second on lifebloom will mean more then 7 targets combined with the new Gift of the Earthmother talent, lowering the GCD of lifebloom with another 0.5 seconds. <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Zaira</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5032</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5032</guid>
		<description>@Yggdrasil: The % on the increase doesn&#039;t increase, just how often scorch applies it.  Meaning it stays at 2% and stacks up to 10% with a full 5-stack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Yggdrasil: The % on the increase doesn&#8217;t increase, just how often scorch applies it.  Meaning it stays at 2% and stacks up to 10% with a full 5-stack.</p>
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		<title>By: Yggdrasil</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5030</link>
		<dc:creator>Yggdrasil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5030</guid>
		<description>ummm...please pardon my ignorance, but it looks like Improved Scorch stacks 5 times, and is fully talented at 10%...meaning that it would debuff the target for 50% more damage...right? Am I misreading that?

&lt;---remaining totally mum on the issue of Flourish. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ummm&#8230;please pardon my ignorance, but it looks like Improved Scorch stacks 5 times, and is fully talented at 10%&#8230;meaning that it would debuff the target for 50% more damage&#8230;right? Am I misreading that?</p>
<p>&lt;&#8212;remaining totally mum on the issue of Flourish. <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Zaira</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/comment-page-1/#comment-5027</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/2008/07/29/more-beta-patch-changes/#comment-5027</guid>
		<description>The problem with this is that this is in the vein of EQ1 things mentioned previously by Phae - blizzard is taking something away in order to give it back again via a mechanic.  The case in point is right now everyone can drink a potion every potion cooldown (2mins).  They are taking that ability away in order to unlock it for alchemists.  Does this make alchies potentially more special?  Sure.  But its at the cost of others.  They are nerfing everyone in order to recreate the status quo on one category of people.  This is worrysome.

I am an alchemist.  Always have been.  And it worries and saddens me that I may end up switching to inscription with my herbalism, just because my abilities may be even less useful to my raid and friends overall.  A better solution might be a carrot rather than the stick.  Make all elixirs/pots work better on alchemists.  Have an Elixir of healing add +65 healing (instead of 55) when taken by a master alchemist.  This way you reward someone for a skill/ability, instead of punishing everyone to get the same result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with this is that this is in the vein of EQ1 things mentioned previously by Phae &#8211; blizzard is taking something away in order to give it back again via a mechanic.  The case in point is right now everyone can drink a potion every potion cooldown (2mins).  They are taking that ability away in order to unlock it for alchemists.  Does this make alchies potentially more special?  Sure.  But its at the cost of others.  They are nerfing everyone in order to recreate the status quo on one category of people.  This is worrysome.</p>
<p>I am an alchemist.  Always have been.  And it worries and saddens me that I may end up switching to inscription with my herbalism, just because my abilities may be even less useful to my raid and friends overall.  A better solution might be a carrot rather than the stick.  Make all elixirs/pots work better on alchemists.  Have an Elixir of healing add +65 healing (instead of 55) when taken by a master alchemist.  This way you reward someone for a skill/ability, instead of punishing everyone to get the same result.</p>
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