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PTR Report: Drinking to have Increasing Returns
Published on February 12, 2008 by Phaelia 
Blue, Patches, PvP 
16 Comments
Edit on 2/21: Community Manager Kalgan (US) has announced that this change will now only be active in Arenas.
Players on the 2.4 PTR are reporting that the method by which drinking restores mana has been adjusted so that the amount returned starts off low and increases each tick. It was originally reported by Matthan of Endor (EU) and later confirmed by Community Manager Hortus to be an intentional change:
This is an intentional change to how drinking works. The amount of mana regenerated now ramps up, so you will see little or no mana regen the first few seconds and then it will increase as the duration continues.
It appears this change did not make it into these patch notes, I’ll see about getting it added to future notes.
Community Manager Vaneras later responded to the resulting outcry from this change on another thread:
It is true that a change in 2.4 in regards to drinking. The intention is to offset some of the mana regeneration from drinking so that the mana gained from drinking will be less in the beginning of the duration, but it will ramp up and increase towards the middle and end of the duration.
It should be noted that we specifically made sure that there would be little to no change in the amount of mana regenerated by players, who drink between pulls or during gauntlet runs. There should be almost no difference in the amount of mana yielded if you sit to drink for at least 6 seconds, which most players do.
Many players accurately assumed that this change was made in response to complaints about casters — and especially Druids — drinking [Star's Tears] to restore mana in Arenas. This supposition was later confirmed by Vaneras:
The change is being made to have as little impact to PvE players as possible, but it has to affect all water as this fix applies to Arenas, battlegrounds, and world PvP, which will have specific emphasis in the upcoming expansion.
For those wondering about the nitty gritty math behind how this currently works on the PTR, Vaneras explains:
After the change you will gain little to no mana after first tick(~2 seconds), the second tick(~4 seconds) will give you the normal amount of mana+66% extra and the third tick(~6 seconds) will give you the normal amount of mana+33% extra, and then it levels out after that. This means that you will still gain mana before the ~6 second mark (before the third tick), however it will be less than what you are used to now. At the ~6 second mark you will have gained as much as you would have before the change.
Ironically, Druids will likely be the class least punished by this change since running HoTs allow us to stay away from combat longer and at least half of us have the racial ability, Shadowmeld, to protect us while drinking. And as other healers derive less benefit from drinking, our relative longevity will actually improve.
Thanks to Currant of Druid Tank and reader Bullar for clueing me into this change!
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All these things can be done in 5 mans though. Riverwishs...
“Ironically, Druids will likely be the class least punished by this change”
Seriously, way to fail at balancing Resto Druids in arenas, Blizzard.
/facepalm
Our more vocal mage was furious when he heard of this change.
“Thanks Resto Arena Drinking Druids. I already hated dealing with you enough now I get to thank for a stupid ****ing change that’s going to hinder my class, and hurt one of our most important group abilities.”
So much druid hate. ^_^
But of course if this is only hindering the first 2 seconds there shouldent be MUCH of a change for PvE as it states. Alot of people are still pissed about this. Another reason for PvEers to get pissed at the PvP community and for good reason.
This will prolly still affect druids in arenas. It depends on the arena and situation but we shall see.
Aww, for a minute there, I thought it was going to be a PvE buff to water. My mage goes through mana SO fast, and my pitiful level 65 conjured water just doesn’t do the trick.
Frankly, I dont see why they dont just get RID of drinking in arenas to begin with. Mind you, I dont do arenas, but it just doesn’t seem like a necessary mechanic to have in place. Perma-combat, IMO.
Perma-combat would hurt stealthers, though, so it probably won’t happen.
This is actually going to HURT Druids more than any other class. When the 2.4 changes go through, if you have a HOT ticking on someone in combat, then you are in combat too. Not more tossing on a Rejuv then hiding…
No one complained about druids before you could drink in arenas. No changes had been made at all.
It is ridiculous to balance the entire game around 2v2 pvp, which could never be balanced. Druid healing is built around hots, which thrive in a pvp environment where there are not that many players to easily burn down a plaer with hots on them. It only makes sense that druids will be the best healers in this genre, with our arsenal of hots.
There will always be a best healer for each bracket, and we just happen to be the best in 2v2, where there are not enough people on the opposing side to easily burn down our hots.
If we ever got nerfed, people would be screaming Nerf Disc priests. It’s ridiculous. The only way to please these whiney losers would be to disallow healing in arenas.
Hi, im not posting about this news really, but ive seen lately(in arena) druid can cyclone to an infinite. I mean how is that permitted? Im a druid healer myself and i just found that out and im like, WHAT THE HELL.
Thanks.
And no i didnt miss-see or anything. I know what im talking about, ive tested it and thats a damn OP bullshit.
I saw the changes and was thinking “Oh, geez, that’s going to make Attumen actually a challenge!” but it appears I was mistaken, if the ramping mechanics work as described.
Kit: You’re mistaken, I’m afraid. Cyclone is affected by (afflicted with? :P) Diminishing Returns. This means that it lasts its full duration (six seconds) on a target the first time it is cast. If you cast it again on the same target within fifteen seconds of the spell ending, it lasts half the original duration (3 seconds). If you cast it /again/ within fifteen seconds of that ending, it lasts 1.5 seconds… and until you let fifteen seconds go by after the end of that third cast, that target becomes immune to Cyclone.
So, yeah, we can really mess someone up if the timing’s right, but we can hardly lock someone down ‘infinitely’ (the best we can do, if we dropped chain-casts perfectly, is to lock them out of a fight for the first 10.5 out of 25.5 seconds).
@Brian
This is actually going to HURT Druids more than any other class. When the 2.4 changes go through, if you have a HOT ticking on someone in combat, then you are in combat too. Not more tossing on a Rejuv then hiding…
Are you serious? That would be totally lol, because it would also put, say, a priest in combat whenever his shield was hit or his renew ticked. Paladins already don’t drink that often, as well as Shamans (who plays a restoshaman in highrated arena anyways?)
In other news, I just hit lvl 68 with my drood and now roam the skies over shattrath, looking for a prey… TO BEAR BOMB UPON :O
I know that Llanion, but like i said, ive tryed it, and if you get ur timing right. The diminishing return like ‘reset’ so you can cyclone again for 6, then for 3, wait again and it go back to 6 second than 3, than 6 than 3….. for an infinite time. Ive done it so i know what is it.
Kitanul, I believe you are misunderstanding the mechanics of diminishing returns. The diminishing returns do ‘reset’, but only after 15 seconds from when you finished casting the spell. If you cast it once, you get six seconds. If you then cast it again on that target right as it wears off, it should last about 3 seconds. Meaning that the target has been cycloned for a total of nine seconds. If you then waited over a dozen seconds after the effect wears off that target, then tried to cast it on that person again, it would last the full six seconds again.
So, you can in theory cyclone a target (and only one target) for perhaps 9 every so often, we just have to wait about a dozen seconds in between. So, we cannot keep someone cycloned infinitely, but if the fight lasts long enough, we can restart that _cycle_ again and again, yes.
Other crowd control works the same way. For example, in PvP, a mage can keep someone polymorphed for a sliver longer during that same period, with just one cast. So, if you feel that cyclone is ‘bullshit’, then you might want to read up on the crowd control options of other classes
@Kitanul: of course it resets, that’s the idea, so dimishing returns don’t “ban” a spell forever
Your “infinite” loop could also be 6 seconds cyclone, 15 wait, 6 seconds cyclone.. etc.. as with fear, entangling roots, polymorph, etc. I have yet to see your point here.
The problem, if there were any, would be about cyclone being balanced or not. It lasts 6 seconds (way less than any other crowd control ability) while, yeah, target can’t be healed, but can’t be harmed either.
Now, if you’re telling me cyclone is bugged and you need less than 15 seconds to do that, that’s a whole different thing
@Kaymoo: Brian has a bit of truth there.. I don’t know exactly about rejuvenation, but lifebloom sure has a high chance of keeping you in combat. I’ve found myself waiting for more than usual to get out of combat only to hear a lifebloom explode. Maybe it doesn’t always happen, I haven’t tested it, but it does sometimes.
@everyone: Druids only became so powerful in arena after water was made available. Nerfing water will nerf everybody, but druids have greater ease to drink. Sure, they’ll be able to drink where no one else will, but they’ll get less from it. The tricky part is elves can shadowmeld anyway, so maybe it’ll hurt tauren druids more.
I think it’ll hurt druids more, as drinking is part of many of their teams’ strategy. Other classes just happen to drink when they can, but can’t count on it. I’m just guessing though
EDIT: I just saw Zenn’s post at the same time as mine. I only want to add the 15 seconds counter begins as soon as the effect ends, not begins. So you have to wait 15 seconds after cyclone wears off (unless it’s not working propperly). Rogues know this well as they can’t use kidney shot (6 seconds, 20 seconds cooldown) immediately after the previous one, they have to wait 1 second or they waste their combo points in a 3-second stun
I know that, but i never got sheep/fear or CC at all so many time in a single fight. Its just way too abusive. If you can do the same with all the CC spell, they should definetly fix it. I got cycloned in an arena up to 24 times, if we count them all as 9 sec for 2 cyclone, that make 111 total second almost 2 complete minute of doing nothing floating in the air.
If I had an euro for every time I’ve been spell-locked/feared to death..
Anyway, spending 1.5 seconds to keep someone locked down for 3 or even 1.5 doesn’t really look like a bargain to me..
@SuraBear: One reason they will likely never remove drinking from Arenas altogether is that, while melee have infinite Energy/Rage, a caster without mana is essentially worthless. No drinking would make mana burns and stings even MORE OP than they currently are.