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	<title>Comments on: MP5 vs. Healing</title>
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	<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/</link>
	<description>So many numbers, you'll think you're getting audited</description>
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		<title>By: Phaelia</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-2095</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-2095</guid>
		<description>I think that the change to rolling trinket stacks wouldn&#039;t really affect this analysis. It assumes point for point a &quot;static&quot; healing amount and doesn&#039;t really attempt to model the particulars of on-use +Healing trinkets. I don&#039;t think that +Healing became any less attractive (at least to me), but then I&#039;ve always preferred MP5. Lately, however, I&#039;ve been looking more toward Spirit. This new preference is unfortunate since I still wear 2 pieces of Arena gear (which has no Spirit). =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the change to rolling trinket stacks wouldn&#8217;t really affect this analysis. It assumes point for point a &#8220;static&#8221; healing amount and doesn&#8217;t really attempt to model the particulars of on-use +Healing trinkets. I don&#8217;t think that +Healing became any less attractive (at least to me), but then I&#8217;ve always preferred MP5. Lately, however, I&#8217;ve been looking more toward Spirit. This new preference is unfortunate since I still wear 2 pieces of Arena gear (which has no Spirit). =)</p>
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		<title>By: Foudrenoire</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-2091</link>
		<dc:creator>Foudrenoire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-2091</guid>
		<description>hi, coming back to this post after the new patch nerfing the lifebloom + trincket use, i was wondering if it does change your point of view. With the +Heal being not so interesting for this spell, isn&#039;t MP5 becoming more and more interesting ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, coming back to this post after the new patch nerfing the lifebloom + trincket use, i was wondering if it does change your point of view. With the +Heal being not so interesting for this spell, isn&#8217;t MP5 becoming more and more interesting ?</p>
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		<title>By: Dimitris (Dimtauren)</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-1567</link>
		<dc:creator>Dimitris (Dimtauren)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-1567</guid>
		<description>Yep tree form all the way. We loooove that aura.
I tried HT but the damage especially when he s in bear form is massive and fast, Especially if he resists a taunt on the phase change, so regrowth works better   I do not have to spam it so much because of the extra HoT.
In general I do not like HT without swiftmend. It takes too long to cast and usually if you try to heal a spike, if you are on the 3-4 tick of lifebloom then you lose it as well, having to reroll it and deal with another big heal to compensate for the lack of HoTs. Not to mention potential mana and time waste cause of someone else healing him before you.
Well this is getting a little out of topic and more fight specific.

My main points are that since mp5 got buffed after the patch,  healing scales much more gracefully, ecpecially in pre-patch fights which were designed to be handled with much lower mp5. And second that  healing actually saves some mana, while mp5 does not compensate for lower  healing in progress fights which tend to be intense (In non-progress/farming fights you usually dont&#039;t actually have to worry).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep tree form all the way. We loooove that aura.<br />
I tried HT but the damage especially when he s in bear form is massive and fast, Especially if he resists a taunt on the phase change, so regrowth works better   I do not have to spam it so much because of the extra HoT.<br />
In general I do not like HT without swiftmend. It takes too long to cast and usually if you try to heal a spike, if you are on the 3-4 tick of lifebloom then you lose it as well, having to reroll it and deal with another big heal to compensate for the lack of HoTs. Not to mention potential mana and time waste cause of someone else healing him before you.<br />
Well this is getting a little out of topic and more fight specific.</p>
<p>My main points are that since mp5 got buffed after the patch,  healing scales much more gracefully, ecpecially in pre-patch fights which were designed to be handled with much lower mp5. And second that  healing actually saves some mana, while mp5 does not compensate for lower  healing in progress fights which tend to be intense (In non-progress/farming fights you usually dont&#8217;t actually have to worry).</p>
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		<title>By: Phaelia</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-1566</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-1566</guid>
		<description>My mistake - we ARE doing Nalorakk, but I haven&#039;t been to ZA, yet. From what I understand of that fight, the healing is pretty intense, so I probably would stay out of Tree Form and use HT, Lifebloom, Rejuv, and Swiftmend. I have 5/5 Naturalist and no points in Improved Regrowth, so it wouldn&#039;t make sense for me to use Regrowth. I see that you have points in both, so why not use HT instead of RG? Are you trying to do the fight without leaving TF?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mistake &#8211; we ARE doing Nalorakk, but I haven&#8217;t been to ZA, yet. From what I understand of that fight, the healing is pretty intense, so I probably would stay out of Tree Form and use HT, Lifebloom, Rejuv, and Swiftmend. I have 5/5 Naturalist and no points in Improved Regrowth, so it wouldn&#8217;t make sense for me to use Regrowth. I see that you have points in both, so why not use HT instead of RG? Are you trying to do the fight without leaving TF?</p>
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		<title>By: Dimitris (Dimtauren)</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-1565</link>
		<dc:creator>Dimitris (Dimtauren)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 03:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-1565</guid>
		<description>Well I haven&#039;t done it yet. I m still full of royal nightseyes (Damn those post-s3 gem prices...).
I ll post when we have another shot on him (3 days ;) )
As for regrowth, I use it a lot, since we are not a strong post-kara guild and I m usually sort of the main healer. We just got gruul on farm, now progressing in ZA and had one try on TK, so our tanks are a bit on stress during more demanding fights. I guess you do not have to heal as intensely as I do relying only on HoTs and only on swiftmend.
Btw, here is my armory link if you have any suggestions
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dunemaul&amp;n=Dimtauren</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I haven&#8217;t done it yet. I m still full of royal nightseyes (Damn those post-s3 gem prices&#8230;).<br />
I ll post when we have another shot on him (3 days <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  )<br />
As for regrowth, I use it a lot, since we are not a strong post-kara guild and I m usually sort of the main healer. We just got gruul on farm, now progressing in ZA and had one try on TK, so our tanks are a bit on stress during more demanding fights. I guess you do not have to heal as intensely as I do relying only on HoTs and only on swiftmend.<br />
Btw, here is my armory link if you have any suggestions<br />
<a href="http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dunemaul&#038;n=Dimtauren" rel="nofollow">http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dunemaul&#038;n=Dimtauren</a></p>
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		<title>By: Phaelia</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-1564</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 02:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-1564</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t say that I run into your situation very often, but we aren&#039;t doing Nalorakk. I seldomly need to use Regrowth (luckily) and am usually able to rely upon Swiftmend for burst healing. Regardless, wouldn&#039;t the increased mana regeneration from Intensity make it so that you have less difficulty if you did have to use Regrowth? Obviously, your mileage may vary so itemize however works best for you. But for me, I prefer the mana regen. Did you find a big difference on the Nalorakk fight when adding more +Healing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t say that I run into your situation very often, but we aren&#8217;t doing Nalorakk. I seldomly need to use Regrowth (luckily) and am usually able to rely upon Swiftmend for burst healing. Regardless, wouldn&#8217;t the increased mana regeneration from Intensity make it so that you have less difficulty if you did have to use Regrowth? Obviously, your mileage may vary so itemize however works best for you. But for me, I prefer the mana regen. Did you find a big difference on the Nalorakk fight when adding more +Healing?</p>
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		<title>By: Dimitris (Dimtauren)</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-1562</link>
		<dc:creator>Dimitris (Dimtauren)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2007 01:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-1562</guid>
		<description>Well I have read this post before, but I came back to it after having a small chat with a T6 resto druid in AV. What he suggested to me is to replace all my &quot;royal nightseye&quot; gems (which I usually use to keep up the set bonuses) and just use two luminous noble topazes to just activate the +26 healing meta.

After considering his suggestions and reading the post again, it seems that there is one parameter that you have not taken into account.
&quot;Healing more now, reduces the need to heal in the future&quot;

Lets take the Nalorakk fight for example. Not really a burn fight like gruul but quite damage intensive and relatively long (~7mins for us).
It also requires changing healing targets a lot while the phases change, so you have to keep your healing output high.
Lets assume that you are designated to heal only the MT/OT and ignore all others.
Nalorakk hits hard, so you have to stack lifebloom and rejuvenation fast on the tank and do it every time for each phase. However, I found that the tank kept losing HP and had to use regrowth to heal the difference and use the extra HoT to prevent him from leaking too much hp again. And sometimes even an instant HT to prevent it from dying.
I found myself after using a pot and a &quot;spirit sticked&quot; innervation almost oom at about 1min before the fight ended. And I blame regrowth for that.
Having bigger +healing (almost +80 more with the meta and all teardrops), would postpone the need to use the less mana efficient spells. It would also save my friends&#039; mana because they would not have to heal much to deal with spikes and give us some more time to breath in &quot;Oh DAMN&quot; situations.
So my point is that +healing is actually &quot;Mana saving&quot; while mp5 is &quot;mana regenerating&quot;. I actually tend to prefer the 1st.
And two final points.
Post-2.3, mp5 has taken a great boost (30% of spirit), meaning that you can now invest more in +healing and have the same or even more mp5 efficiency as you would pre-patch, while the fights have remained the same.
And second, there are several efficient technics that can compensate for lower mp5 (trinketing/staffing innervates, innervates from others, use pots when cd is down etc), but none efficient ones for compensating for lower +healing (spamming regrowth?????).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I have read this post before, but I came back to it after having a small chat with a T6 resto druid in AV. What he suggested to me is to replace all my &#8220;royal nightseye&#8221; gems (which I usually use to keep up the set bonuses) and just use two luminous noble topazes to just activate the +26 healing meta.</p>
<p>After considering his suggestions and reading the post again, it seems that there is one parameter that you have not taken into account.<br />
&#8220;Healing more now, reduces the need to heal in the future&#8221;</p>
<p>Lets take the Nalorakk fight for example. Not really a burn fight like gruul but quite damage intensive and relatively long (~7mins for us).<br />
It also requires changing healing targets a lot while the phases change, so you have to keep your healing output high.<br />
Lets assume that you are designated to heal only the MT/OT and ignore all others.<br />
Nalorakk hits hard, so you have to stack lifebloom and rejuvenation fast on the tank and do it every time for each phase. However, I found that the tank kept losing HP and had to use regrowth to heal the difference and use the extra HoT to prevent him from leaking too much hp again. And sometimes even an instant HT to prevent it from dying.<br />
I found myself after using a pot and a &#8220;spirit sticked&#8221; innervation almost oom at about 1min before the fight ended. And I blame regrowth for that.<br />
Having bigger +healing (almost +80 more with the meta and all teardrops), would postpone the need to use the less mana efficient spells. It would also save my friends&#8217; mana because they would not have to heal much to deal with spikes and give us some more time to breath in &#8220;Oh DAMN&#8221; situations.<br />
So my point is that +healing is actually &#8220;Mana saving&#8221; while mp5 is &#8220;mana regenerating&#8221;. I actually tend to prefer the 1st.<br />
And two final points.<br />
Post-2.3, mp5 has taken a great boost (30% of spirit), meaning that you can now invest more in +healing and have the same or even more mp5 efficiency as you would pre-patch, while the fights have remained the same.<br />
And second, there are several efficient technics that can compensate for lower mp5 (trinketing/staffing innervates, innervates from others, use pots when cd is down etc), but none efficient ones for compensating for lower +healing (spamming regrowth?????).</p>
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		<title>By: spirit v mp5, post 2.3, with flourishes. &#171; Priestly Endeavors - a WoW Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-958</link>
		<dc:creator>spirit v mp5, post 2.3, with flourishes. &#171; Priestly Endeavors - a WoW Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 20:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-958</guid>
		<description>[...] such. I will give a SWAG (scientific Wild Ass Guess) at 10 +heal = 1 mp5 - using Phaelia&#8217;s original post as my basis and 10 as a simplification of the 11 over there. To keep my head from exploding when I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] such. I will give a SWAG (scientific Wild Ass Guess) at 10 +heal = 1 mp5 &#8211; using Phaelia&#8217;s original post as my basis and 10 as a simplification of the 11 over there. To keep my head from exploding when I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Phaelia</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-699</link>
		<dc:creator>Phaelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-699</guid>
		<description>@Dragontamer: You make an excellent point about opting to weaken Lifebloom possibly causing you to spend more mana to compensate for spikier damage, and I&#039;m not sure how much I&#039;m being affected by my preference for MP5 right now. My current issues in raids, however, rarely seem to be a lack of throughput; more often, I run OOM and stand around looking like so much shrubbery, half wishing I were a Paladin of infinite mana!

I&#039;m not sure I understand your point about healing output. If I&#039;m running LB x 3 + Rejuv + Regrowth, I don&#039;t have a tremendous amount of time to be casting anything aside from Lifeblooms on raidmates. Aside from a Nature&#039;s Swiftness, I can hardly ever use a Healing Touch (of course, I don&#039;t have the talents to reduce casting time). Regardless, as I said in the post, I found these numbers by running an analysis on an existing fight. To find a more accurate value, I would probably need to run it over several different types of boss fights.

I&#039;m willing to concede that 1 MP5 might be worth slightly less than 11 +Healing. But I haven&#039;t done the extended analysis to determine exactly how much. I just wanted to show the process for determining your own personal value. The rest is really up to you!

And if only we lived in a perfect world where our tank Lifeblooms never expired! Personally, I want a set bonus that makes them last 2 more ticks like the one for Regrowth. ;-)

If you ever do any analysis of your own (using this or another method), I would love to see your results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dragontamer: You make an excellent point about opting to weaken Lifebloom possibly causing you to spend more mana to compensate for spikier damage, and I&#8217;m not sure how much I&#8217;m being affected by my preference for MP5 right now. My current issues in raids, however, rarely seem to be a lack of throughput; more often, I run OOM and stand around looking like so much shrubbery, half wishing I were a Paladin of infinite mana!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand your point about healing output. If I&#8217;m running LB x 3 + Rejuv + Regrowth, I don&#8217;t have a tremendous amount of time to be casting anything aside from Lifeblooms on raidmates. Aside from a Nature&#8217;s Swiftness, I can hardly ever use a Healing Touch (of course, I don&#8217;t have the talents to reduce casting time). Regardless, as I said in the post, I found these numbers by running an analysis on an existing fight. To find a more accurate value, I would probably need to run it over several different types of boss fights.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m willing to concede that 1 MP5 might be worth slightly less than 11 +Healing. But I haven&#8217;t done the extended analysis to determine exactly how much. I just wanted to show the process for determining your own personal value. The rest is really up to you!</p>
<p>And if only we lived in a perfect world where our tank Lifeblooms never expired! Personally, I want a set bonus that makes them last 2 more ticks like the one for Regrowth. <img src='http://www.resto4life.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If you ever do any analysis of your own (using this or another method), I would love to see your results.</p>
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		<title>By: Dragontamer</title>
		<link>http://www.resto4life.com/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/comment-page-1/#comment-697</link>
		<dc:creator>Dragontamer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.resto4life.com/index.php/2007/09/12/mp5-vs-healing/#comment-697</guid>
		<description>I think this analysis is a good try but fundamentally flawed, and for reasons larger than those citied above.

+healing has a HUGE impact on your Lifebloom ticks, as you have correctly observed.  So if you were to trade in your +healing for mp5 at an 11:1 ratio, what you would find is that your lifebloom x3 is ticking for a lot less.  To make up for this, you will have to cast more Rejuvs and Regrowths, which are much less mana efficient spells and require more MP5 to sustain.  In addition, in mainatining these spells you are much more likely to end up letting your Lifeblooms expire, particularly if you are healing people other than the MT.  Allowing LBx3 to expire and then reapplying three stacks is less mana efficient than maintaing LBx3.

Also, there is the matter of your total healing output.  Once you have LBx3, Rejuv, and Regrowth stacked, any additional healing requires you to either be out of treeform to cast healing touch or spamming regrowth, both of which are enormously mana inefficient.  So assuming, neither of these are a realistic option, the amount of healing support you can put out in a mana efficient manner is very dependent on your +healing.

Do a math calculation that applies generally is impossible, because how you balance these factors will vary from figt to fight.  Some fights you have to heal others, some you&#039;re only on the MT.  Some fights you need burst healing, others just dropping LBs around the raid will do.  Some fights, you&#039;ll need only to put LBx3 on the MT.  Others will require you to maintain all three HoTs, and even then keeping the tank up is challenging.

The bottom line though is that +11 healing is worth more than 1 mp5.  How much is a harder questions...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this analysis is a good try but fundamentally flawed, and for reasons larger than those citied above.</p>
<p>+healing has a HUGE impact on your Lifebloom ticks, as you have correctly observed.  So if you were to trade in your +healing for mp5 at an 11:1 ratio, what you would find is that your lifebloom x3 is ticking for a lot less.  To make up for this, you will have to cast more Rejuvs and Regrowths, which are much less mana efficient spells and require more MP5 to sustain.  In addition, in mainatining these spells you are much more likely to end up letting your Lifeblooms expire, particularly if you are healing people other than the MT.  Allowing LBx3 to expire and then reapplying three stacks is less mana efficient than maintaing LBx3.</p>
<p>Also, there is the matter of your total healing output.  Once you have LBx3, Rejuv, and Regrowth stacked, any additional healing requires you to either be out of treeform to cast healing touch or spamming regrowth, both of which are enormously mana inefficient.  So assuming, neither of these are a realistic option, the amount of healing support you can put out in a mana efficient manner is very dependent on your +healing.</p>
<p>Do a math calculation that applies generally is impossible, because how you balance these factors will vary from figt to fight.  Some fights you have to heal others, some you&#8217;re only on the MT.  Some fights you need burst healing, others just dropping LBs around the raid will do.  Some fights, you&#8217;ll need only to put LBx3 on the MT.  Others will require you to maintain all three HoTs, and even then keeping the tank up is challenging.</p>
<p>The bottom line though is that +11 healing is worth more than 1 mp5.  How much is a harder questions&#8230;</p>
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